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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Hi Folks!

A very common question with respect to the CBR125/150 series of bikes is which oil to use? There's a plethora of oils available, all making claims of one sort or another. I'd like to take a moment to address this issue once and for all with real-world experience and post up my findings...they are very accurate...

I went through this last year as I was racing the bike daily against larger bikes and I noticed, right away, that fresh oil was a LOT faster then used oil. The engine ran better, it shifted better and I did a lot better against my competitors. This was a very noticeable difference especially when competing against similar performing bikes where you spend a lot of time side by side in the same lane.

It started out with the oil lasting a week before performance and shifting started to decline. As I did more neck & neck racing, in the heat of the summer, I found that at the end of the day I could tell that the oil was no longer fresh (one day on fresh oil). At that point I switched over to changing my oil on a daily basis if I was racing...

I got tired of changing out perfectly clean oil that was clearly being destroyed for some unknown reason at $7 a liter. It was costing 70% of the cost of a full tank of fuel raising my daily expenditure from $13 for fuel to +$20 with oil. That's a HUGE increase in running costs (almost double) :o

I knew there was no way that the oil could even get close to Honda's oil change interval when I was changing it out due to degraded performance within a week, or, on a daily basis!

So I spent a lot of time looking into exactly why the oil was getting destroyed. My research took me to an oil engineer with a PHD in petroleum chemistry. He's made a fortune creating oil blends for large oil companies....

When I explained the situation to him he laughed and picked it off immediately because, as it turns out, it's quite common.

The oil is being destroyed due to oil shear.

The reason why our bikes are particularly susceptible to this issue is because the oil is shared between the engine, the transmission, and the clutch. Add in an engine that's routinely turning 11,500 RPM and it's a recipe for killing a conventional oil in short order...

...but, it's also compounded by the fact that our bikes only hold one liter of oil. If you think about it, that's one liter of oil that's being pressed into pretty severe service! :wacko:

When the oil gets passed through the gears in the transmission it gets the living daylights squeezed out of it :blink: This shears the oil. When oil shears the viscosity increases. So, a 10/30 ends up being closer to a 20/50 when it's fully sheared out - or thicker...

This is why the bike slows down and why the shifting becomes more difficult. The oil is sheared and is now effectively useless. The engine and transmission are struggling against an oil that is now too thick and, as you know, our bikes only have a little bit of power, so anything that decreases that power is readily apparent to a rider who is perceptive as to how his bike is running.

When racing the bike with dinosaur oil I can shear it out in one day if it's in the heat of the summer. The results actually show up in dyno tests that I've been running (if the poor performance of the engine/transmission alone isn't enough to convince the average rider).

So what's the answer to a long & consistent oil life?

The answer is to run a genuine 100% synthetic oil. A true synthetic oil is shear-stable.

The oil that was recommended to me by the petroleum engineer was Amsoil motorcycle oil. This is because it is a real, genuine, 100% synthetic oil with the base stock provided by Mobil 1, manufactured according to their OLD standards which are much higher then the current Mobil 1 specs. <ahem>

At that point, Amsoil adds in their own additive package and sells the product. This means that it is effectively the famed Mobil 1 of old which was always the best oil in the world and not a cheaper incarnation like Mobil 1's later 'blends' :top:

When you change over to Amsoil (or any quality 100% synthetic) you will see several interesting things,

  • The oil will no longer shear and your bike's performance will stabilize whether your oil is fresh or old.
  • You can now run the oil right up to Honda's oil change interval if so desired
  • Your transmission will shift better because it's not submersed in oil that is as thick as ketchup
  • Your engine oil will typically run about 25 degrees cooler - a common side-effect of true synthetic oil
  • Your engine will actually make more power because it's not fighting against sheared-out oil that has thickened to well beyond it's original spec.

I found that Amsoil 10/40 is great and I was even able to get my hands on 0/40 which is even better (preferred) - weather permitting. With either oil the problems are gone. If you can get a liter for $15 at crappy tire it's a bargain and if you have to pay $20 it's still the best thing you can do for a bike that only takes <ahem> one liter of oil. The cheapest I've got it for is $14 and as far as I know, that's the lowest trade price out there. :top:

If you choose to put an end to this oil issue that is inherent in all of the CBR125's there are four other things worth mentioning, one, do a HOT oil change and tilt the bike to get rid of all the garbage oil. This will mean you need an extra 300ml of oil though (meaning buy two liters of Amsoil).

Two, you will hear more 'noise' from your engine whether it be bearing noise, valvetrain or what have you. This is a common side-effect of running real synthetic. Three, I've found is that it takes a bit of time for the oil to 'break in', 3 days or so but you don't have to be gentle to it - you can beat the living crap out of it all day long right from the pour. Four, your engine will actually run about 25 degrees cooler....which is important on a bike that only uses one liter of oil and doesn't have an oil cooler....

If you're balking about the price, consider how much you spend on changing it out more often and also what you spend on mods to increase your bike's power. Oil is not as sexy as some of those purchases but when you can change it and leave it in there for a long period of time, without a performance penalty, it becomes a pretty cost-effective modification. I just re-built the top end of my engine (at 20K) and it was very nice in there - you could tell that a quality oil was being run for most of the engine's life.

But, just to boil this back to basics, viewed solely as a performance modification alone, running Amsoil is a pretty big bang for the buck. Pictured below is probably the best oil you can get provided you don't live in an area where the temperatures are extremely hot.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Here's a quick question for you Marvin....You mentioned weather permitting with regards to the 0W40 synthetic. What exactly do you mean? I was going to do an oil change tonight I think and was wondering what the weather requirements were. In the summers here it easily hits 90-100 degrees Fahrenheit. But at the same time I've been riding the bike in 30 degree weather too. Which do you think would be better for me? the 0w40 or 10w40?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:06 pm 
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I have no idea what a Fahrenheit is anymore :unsure:

But, if the choice is between 0w40 and 10w40 the answer is always to use the lowest winter rating available. The W actually stands for winter. It does not stand for weight. You want the oil to be as runny as possible when cold because cold-start is where most engine wear occurs. So 0 is better then 10. The 40 indicates the oil's grade when hot. In simple terms;

The colder it is outside, the lower you want the first number. This number cannot really be too low so lower is always better.
The hotter it is outside, the higher you want the second number. This is dependent on just how hot it gets outside and your engine.

The first number, the winter rating, can be as low as possible. If you could get a -40w40 that would be just peachy but they don't exist. Most of us don't live at the North Pole anyway so it's not that big of a deal but lower is always better.

According to the Internet, 100 Fahrenheit is actually 37.7778 Celsius. That's fairly hot so you may go higher on the second number although, personally, I would not worry about it. A true synethic (as pictured) is a pretty stout performer and will always run about 25 degrees cooler than dinosaur oil.

I once recommended 0w40 to a fellow in Australia, not taking into account their summer temperatures, and he laughed :laugh: Rightly so, if you're in a really hot place like that you want the second number to be higher. He personally mentioned something about them starting at 50... I have no experience down there so it's better to defer to someone who lives there and truly understands from experience.

The Honda recommended oil, according to the service manual, is 10w30. 0w40 is far superior because it has much better cold-start performance and much better hot weather performance. The rule of thumb is this, you always want the first number to be as low as possible and you want the second number to fit in with your average highest temps during riding. I would think that 40, given your expected temps, will give you lots of leeway and should be a good choice but this is somewhat subjective. If it were me, I would not worry about running 0w40 at those temps in a true synthetic as pictured.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Thanks so much for the in depth answer! I was reading it while standing in front of the oil in Canadian tire actually. Turns out it's on sale right now for $15.99. They were all out of 0w40, only one left of 10w40 and tons of 20w40. I ended up getting the 10w40 since I'm hoping to do it tomorrow. Only took two trips there to buy it too after making it to the register only to find out I'd forgotten my wallet in the motorcycle jacket I wore last night. Grrr. Anyways, thanks for the advice!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Excellent news and interesting that you're getting advice while at the store :laugh:

The only way, that I can see, to achieve the OEM oil change interval is with true synthetic. If you rev the engine at all conventional dinosaur oil will shear out long before then and get destroyed in the process. It's not just RPM that kills dinosaur oil - it's also the fact that it gets sheared and beat to hell as it goes through the gears in the transmission. In fact, I suspect that's where the brunt of the oil shear occurs.

True synthetic will make more power then sheared out dinosaur oil - that's a fact. This occurs because as dinosaur oil shears out it becomes thicker and thicker and this robs power from the engine. It's harder for it to operate with very thick oil then with oil that is of the proper viscosity. True synthetic will not shear and you will have the same oil consistency right up until the oil change interval.

Two things that are part and parcel of true synthetic though is that the engine will be a bit noisier, you tend to hear the ticks, and the second is that your oil will run about 25 degrees cooler - which is good since our bikes do not have an oil cooler.

I guess if I had mentioned to bring your wallet I could have saved you a trip :laugh: I find the fact that you were reading this while at the store too cool :cool:

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...because every day is MotoGP day when you own a CBR 125r...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:12 pm 
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If only you'd reminded me to bring my wallet! Funny thing was I left the bottle of oil with the cashier after telling her I forgot the wallet. I went back to the same cashier and she said they'd been taking bets if I would come back lol. My car was one of only three in the parking lot so I'm guessing they're bored lol.
Anyways the main reasoning I went for synthetic over conventional was your mention about making it to OEM recommended oil changes and the cooler engine. I'm horrible for doing maintenance on my cars, probably because I've never owned a car longer than three years, but I'm going to try my best with my new baby :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:25 am 
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For those interested in learning more about Motorcycle Oils you can find attached Amsoil's "A Study of Motorcycle Oils - Second Edition" :top:


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...because every day is MotoGP day when you own a CBR 125r...
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